Developers' Forum

Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

by Chris Nelson -
Number of replies: 7

Hiya,

Just passing on some feedback from colleagues. They have some ungraded CodeRunner questions (to make it clear to students that it is a purely informal exercise), but note that the 'penalty regime' still shows.

If it's a bug, could the penalty regime be hidden, please? Or, if that's supposed to happen, could we request a feature please, where the penalty regime in a question has a 'hide text' button?

Typical settings:



Display to student:


Many thanks,

Chris. 

In reply to Chris Nelson

Re: Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

by Richard Lobb -

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion, Chris,

I don't regard that as a bug, exactly, because the Default Mark for a question is merely a default and can be overridden when the question is in the quiz. If the penalty regime were hidden when the default mark is zero you could set up a question that was worth marks and had a hefty penalty regime that was hidden from students. I also don't wish to hide the Penalty Regime when it's zero because students need to be explicitly made aware of the fact it's zero in a normal quizzes, where most questions have a non-zero penalty regime.

Certainly I think it would be good to hide the penalty regime if the actual mark for a question in a particular quiz is zero, but I don't know how to get at that actual mark. Perhaps Tim Hunt can advise if there is a way to do so? That would definitely be the best fix, if it's possible.

I'm reluctant to add further complication to the authoring UI, which is already overwhelming for many users. However, if students are being misled by seeing Penalty Regime: 0%, an easy tweak might be to display instead:

Penalties do not apply to this question

whenever the penalty regime is zero. Would your colleagues be happy with that? [I'm not totally sure that I'm happy with it, but let's see what people think first.]

By the way: if your colleagues are setting ungraded questions, are they aware of the Python3 Sandpit question type? It doesn't solve this particular issue but does lessen the confusion with graded questions by displaying results in a very different format, without ticks and crosses.


In reply to Richard Lobb

Re: Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

by Tim Hunt -

Richard, technically the way you can vary the display, based on the maximum mark for the question as it is being attempted right now, is to look at $qa->get_max_mark().

Or, more specifically in this case, in either the behaviour or the question renderer, display different things based on if ($qa->has_marks()) { ...

(And, in case you have not worked it out. Chris is another OU person. He is product owner for our assessment-related developments.)

In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

by Richard Lobb -

Oh doh! Of course, where was my brain?

That makes the correct fix trivial. Done now in my development version, so it will appear in due course. [I'm doing some signficant refactoring, and exploring the possibility of allowing question randomisation to be done in Python instead of Twig, so it might be a while before I push this version.]

Thanks Tim.

In reply to Richard Lobb

Re: Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

by Chris Nelson -

That's great - thanks Richard and Tim.

Could I just check how that'll display following the next release, just so I can confirm to STEM colleagues?


Many thanks,

Chris.

In reply to Chris Nelson

Re: Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

by Richard Lobb -

Here are two question answer boxes in a quiz - the second question is worth 0 marks. Is that what you were after?

Screenshot showing 0 mark question


In reply to Richard Lobb

Re: Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

by Chris Nelson -

That looks brilliant - thanks Richard :-)

In reply to Richard Lobb

Re: Ungraded CR question still has penalty regime

by Chris Nelson -

I suspect that colleagues would be most happy with it disappearing altogether when the question is 0, but in terms of clarity, "Penalties do not apply to this question" is definitely an improvement over showing "Penalty regime: 0%". :-)